Are Linksys and Broadcom in violation of the GPL?
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Showing messages 1 through 18 of 18.

• WET54G
  2003-10-28 10:12:14  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Will it work with Air Port card equipped iBook?

• What about section 2 of the GPL?
  2003-07-31 23:50:31  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Couple of points people have missed in this debate:
  
  1) Froom the GPL:
  
  "...The "Program", below,
  refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program"
  means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law:
  that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it..."
  
  Clearly, the firmware image on the Linksys router is a "work" containing the "Program"
  
  2) From the GPL:
  
  "...But when you
  distribute the same sections as part of a whole which is a work based
  on the Program, the distribution of the whole must be on the terms of
  this License, whose permissions for other licensees extend to the
  entire whole, and thus to each and every part regardless of who wrote it...."
  
  This is in Section 2, under it, ALL files that make up the Linksys firmware are automatically GPLed because they are "part of a whole"
  
  In summary, if the Linksys firmware was easily taken apart and the individual pieces easily modified, then the entire firmware would not be GPL. But because it isn't, the firmware, and all drivers and such in it, are under GPL.
  
  - Ted Mittelstaedt
  - Author, FreeBSD Corporate Networker's Guide
  
  
  It is a single unified file, it cannot be eas

• All of this shows the danger of GPLed software to programmers and innovators
  2003-07-31 23:10:05  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  This whole affair demonstrates the true nature of the GPL. It's designed to sabotage businesses. In particular, it's intended to strip them of the ability to add unique value to their products -- which, in turn, is an essential element of success. VA Linux had to drop out of the hardware business because they couldn't get a competitive edge -- which happened, in turn, because they embraced GPLed code. Linksys, if the GPL zealots have their way, will go the same route.
  
  Linksys was foolish indeed to use GPLed code at all. Instead, they should have used BSD-licensed code, which is friendly to programmers and to the businesses which issue their paychecks. The BSD and MIT licenses, as well as other truly free licenses, promote innovation and allow programmers to be rewarded for innovating. The viral, spiteful, anti-business, anti-programmer GPL does the opposite.
  
  --Brett Glass

• Other GPL Violations...
  2003-07-31 20:10:52  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  I had the priviledge of hearing Tim speak this past weekend. It's interesting he commented tangentally to this. He stated that Google, YahooMaps, PayPal, and eBay are all running linux, yet we've got no source from them. Does anyone believe they have not modified?
  
  I'm not saying that they should turn over all thier assests, or even reveal what they have done, but it does provide some contrast to this story in that these are held as icons of the OSS movement, and not disected.

• actually...
  2003-07-31 11:21:05  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  "(I'd post the email, but their disclaimer asks me not to.)"
  
  IMBw, but I think that's just tough cookies for them - they can *ask* you not to all they like, but they can't stop you unless you signed an NDA...

• What proof?
  2003-07-31 10:41:46  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  What proof is there that they've modified Zebra, except the different locations of configuration files?
  
  Surely the changes to the source code made by autoconf don't count as vendor modifications.

• Noted on linux-kernel too
  2003-07-31 10:25:24  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Might want to contact
  Andrew Miklas as well, he's noted the same thing and was also chugging through Linksys support.
  
  Note that Dell did something similar, and resolved it admirably when Colm MacCárthaigh asked -- the source for the GPLed components of their Dell Truemobile 1184 is now up on the web, details here.
  Take note Linksys! ;)
  

• Others
  2003-07-31 08:46:16  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  What about other vendors? I know that Watchguard uses Linux and a bunch of other utilities but, I don't see any mention of the source anywhere.
  
  Further more, I believe that some of the Watchguard specific modules require GPL licensing or LGPL at the least because of their tie in to the kernel and the other GPL utilities. Where are they?

• Provable GPL violation only by Linksys
  2003-07-31 08:45:29  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Linksys has definitely violated the GPL by not making their source changes available to you, the consumer, after purchasing their GPL-enhanced product.
  
  Broadcom, on the other hand, should they have provided Linksys with a modified gcc, MAY have violated the GPL, but no one (but Linksys) can prove that.
  
  The GPL is a one-step process from distributor to distributee. After Broadcom got their copy of gcc, they can alter it all they want. As long as they don't plan on distributing this new gcc, then they're fine with not releasing the source. And if they DO plan on distributing their gcc, they can also limit distribution as much or as little as possible. It's their prerogative as distributor. GPL doesn't say that you have to give your code to EVERYONE yourself.
  
  However, once they distribute their gcc, it is distributed under GPL, and Linksys can re-distribute it freely. Broadcom cannot make Linksys sign any additional agreements which infringe on the rights the GPL provides.

• what other Linksys products use linux...
  2003-07-31 08:42:50  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  I've wondered if my BEFW11S4 uses linux under the covers... All the articles and code released seems to concentrate just on WRT54G...
  what about all the other linksys routers out there?
  Where's the source?
  Anyone know?

• what other Linksys products use linux...
  2003-07-31 08:41:45  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  I've wondered if my BEFW11S4 uses linux under the covers... All the articles and code released seems to concentrate just on WRT54G...
  what about all the other linksys routers out there?
  Where's the source?
  Anyone know?

• autoconf and an itchy trigger finger
  2003-07-31 08:39:32  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Let's all bash SHO for yelling about an unproven violation of rights, then start bitching Linksys out when someone doesn't know how to use an autoconf'd package.
  
  I hope this posts clearly -- Damned O'Reilly not having a preview option makes this a gamble...
  
  chet@bunny:~/tmp/zebra-0.93b$ ./configure --help | grep dir
  --srcdir=DIR find the sources in DIR [configure dir or `..']
  Installation directories:
  Fine tuning of the installation directories:
  --bindir=DIR user executables [EPREFIX/bin]
  --sbindir=DIR system admin executables [EPREFIX/sbin]
  --libexecdir=DIR program executables [EPREFIX/libexec]
  --datadir=DIR read-only architecture-independent data [PREFIX/share]
  --sysconfdir=DIR read-only single-machine data [PREFIX/etc]
  --sharedstatedir=DIR modifiable architecture-independent data [PREFIX/com]
  --localstatedir=DIR modifiable single-machine data [PREFIX/var]
  --libdir=DIR object code libraries [EPREFIX/lib]
  --includedir=DIR C header files [PREFIX/include]
  --oldincludedir=DIR C header files for non-gcc [/usr/include]
  --infodir=DIR info documentation [PREFIX/info]
  --mandir=DIR man documentation [PREFIX/man]
  LDFLAGS linker flags, e.g. -L<lib dir> if you have libraries in a
  nonstandard directory <lib dir>
  CPPFLAGS C/C++ preprocessor flags, e.g. -I<include dir> if you have
  headers in a nonstandard directory <include dir>
  chet@bunny:~/tmp/zebra-0.93b$

• File Locations?
  2003-07-31 07:21:08  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  Are you sure that the file locations aren't just configurable with a configure script? Perhaps they were using --prefix and --sysconfdir as well as other standard configure flags? This would not be a source modification.

• GCC and GPL
  2003-07-31 06:55:03  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  The author mentioned Linksys using GCC for the WAP software develpment, and suggested that if they were distributing the modified GCC to their developers, then they were obligated to make the source available publicly.
  
  I do not believe this is correct, as I believe the GPL obligates companies to make the source code for GPL code they *sell* (perhaps distribute) available to those to whom they sell binaries.
  
  So I agree that Linksysshould be making the modified zebra code available becuse they distribute the binary with their product, but I disagree that theya re obligated to distribute source forthe modified GCC which they kept internal to their company to compile that zebra software.
  
  In other works a company could use a modified GCC to compile thousands of different proprietary programs for a radical new CPU, and be under no obligation to distribute the source for the modified GCC just because they used it to compile their software. They would have to give the GCC source if they also included the GCC binaries in what they sold so customers could compile programs for the radical new CPU.
  
  My $0.02.

• GPL and GCC
  2003-07-31 06:50:38  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  You asked
  "If Broadcom is using a modified GCC for their reference design, and are making this available to their developers, aren't they bound by the GPL to make the source code to those modifications available as well?"
  
  No,the are not bound at all to release any changes to the gpl that the use internally, only if the release the binaries of that modified GCC do they have to publish the Source.
  
  They can use thier own copy of the compiler to produce all the binaries that they want. That is why you can gpl source code that can only be compiled by a non-free compiler.
  
  mike

• Contact copyright holder
  2003-07-31 03:21:15  anonymous2 [Reply | View]
  
  
  You should notify the copyright holder(s) of the GPL package that is seemingly being misused. He (she, they) is certainly in the position of asking Linksys for clarification, and possibly threatening legal action.
  

• Linksys support
  2003-07-30 10:42:15  Kevin Bingham | [Reply | View]
  
  
  Rob,
  
  Good luck with Linksys support. Last time I emailed them for support I received an unclear response. "Is Linksys farming their support overseas?", I inanely thought. I looked at the response's header, and yes, they do.
  
  Keep up the good work!

• GCC Issues
  2003-07-30 06:03:20  jbeimler [Reply | View]
  
  
  I don't think you have much chance of getting the GCC patches. Linksys isn't shipping GCC, just code compiled with it. Whomever made the bcm4710 modifications is required to give Linksys the code if it is requested, but I can't see how an end user could get the code for gcc without getting the compiler directly from the distributor.